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<DIV>By Christ's blood alone. ONLY by Christ's blood alone!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Tue, 18 May 2004 19:02:12 EDT <A
href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>to the lot of you who have been knocking
what Siarlys said:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>Obviously, none of us can 100% know
exactly what is needed to gain salvation as many different things are said in
the BIble (for example some passages say faith alone and no works at all and
some say faith and works and some say all you need is to be baptized).
Here, for example, is what Jesus Himself said:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT color=#ff8000> </FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=#ff8000>18 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what
must I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 "Why do you call me
good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. 20 You know the
commandments: `Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not
give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' " 21 "All these I have
kept since I was a boy," he said.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing.
Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in
heaven. Then come, follow me." <BR>(Luke 18:18-22)</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>See in this passage Jesus Himself says
you just need to follow the commandments and give to the poor - He says
absolutely nothing at all about having faith in Him or believeing that He is
God's son. What are your opinions on this? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>-Layne</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/17/2004 12:10:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
face=Arial>I'm sure no-one means to offend anyone else, but when Jeff
writes<BR><BR>>with out having accepted Christ according to the Bible
your works mean<BR>nothing. It<BR>>is clearly stated in the Bible that
you have to have accepted Jesus to<BR>>enter heaven<BR><BR>I believe both
statements are incomplete, which means I have to deny that<BR>the second one
is correct.<BR><BR>First, it is all over both the Old and New Testament that
humans cannot<BR>earn salvation by good works. God is not impressed,
because, first, we<BR>are imperfect and inconsistent, and, second, we all
"fall short of the<BR>glory of God" to the extent that if God didn't care
about us, for reasons<BR>that no human with the powers of God could
comprehend, we would be<BR>nothing and nowhere. Without giving a long list
of citations, the Psalms<BR>of David, the preaching of Amos, Micah, Ezra,
Job's contemplations, the<BR>four gospels, and some of Paul's epistles, all
are consistent on this<BR>point.<BR><BR>But, it is not in the Bible, but in
various teachings of church councils<BR>and modern founders of
denominations, that we find a rigid claim that<BR>only those who have
accepted Jesus can get into heaven.<BR><BR>Accepting Jesus is a very good
way to get into heaven. But Christians who<BR>believe nobody else will get
in are in for a shock when they see how many<BR>Jews, Muslims, Buddhists,
Sikhs, maybe even some agnostics, are going to<BR>be there with
us.<BR><BR>The most consistent reference directly from Jesus is Matthew
25:31, to<BR>the end of the chapter. Jesus is very clear that many who think
they have<BR>accepted Jesus, but have not acted on what Jesus taught, are
not going to<BR>get in. Also, many who are unaware they ever did anything
for Jesus, are<BR>going to be accepted.<BR><BR>C.S. Lewis worked with this
theme in The Last Battle, the concluding book<BR>of his Narnia series, which
features a parallel to the Revelation and<BR>last judgment. Aslan, the Lion,
the story's Christ-figure, explains to a<BR>prince of a pagan kingdom, who
has become a man of high moral values and<BR>compassion through cultivating
a sincere devotion to his nation's rather<BR>ruthless pagan idol, "anything
good and true and pure you did out of<BR>dedication to Tash, you really did
for Me."<BR><BR>Friends have tried to tell me that this cannot be true,
citing John 14. I<BR>have two answers to that. The simpler is, Jesus said in
Matthew 24,<BR>"inasmuch as you have done it for the least of these my
brethren, you<BR>have done it unto me." Therefore, those who are not
Christian, who have<BR>fed, clothed, visited, "the least of these my
brethren," have come to<BR>salvation through Jesus because "you have done it
unto me." Anyway, that<BR>is what Jesus said, whether it conflicts with some
Christian doctrine or<BR>not.<BR><BR>Second, I believe John 14, which is
arbitrarily separated from John 13,<BR>has been badly misunderstood. Peter,
Philip and Thomas were asking<BR>questions that bordered on idolatry: from
we can't see where you are<BR>going, to show us the Father and we will
believe. Jesus responded,<BR>essentially, you can't see the way or the
Father, that is why I came, in<BR>human form, follow what I have taught you
and you will be fine. Nobody<BR>had asked "can people who don't accept you
as their savior be saved?" and<BR>that is not the question Jesus was
answering.<BR><BR>But, as I said, accepting Jesus is a very good way to be
saved. Its just<BR>not the only way that Jesus will accept a human. And
Jesus did say that<BR>"salvation is of the Jews." (That is a phrase taken
out of context, but<BR>so are many other conclusions). Bottom line, Jesus
sacrifice was not only<BR>for those who formally accept him by
name.<BR><BR>Siarlys</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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