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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff>Nancy, I totally agree about the
politics issue. I do not vote, I pray for God to help all of them because
they are all going to HE~~</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>:)<BR>Yolanda Cruz<BR>Office Manager/Executive Assistant<BR>Business for
Life<BR>7210 East State Street<BR>Rockford, IL 61108<BR>Phone: (815)
391-9241<BR>Fax: (815) 227-5757<BR><A
href="http://www.businessforlife.biz">www.businessforlife.biz</A><BR><A
href="http://www.home.earthlink.net/~vanidosa27">www.home.earthlink.net/~vanidosa27</A></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net
href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=Yolanda.c@businessforlife.biz
href="mailto:Yolanda.c@businessforlife.biz">Yolanda</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net
href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 17, 2004 9:11 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [GCFL-discuss] salvation
by...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Posh,</DIV>
<DIV> you need to read that one again. It says" Behold, all souls
are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine; the
soul that sins shall die." Also, he was speaking to the Israelites, but
is also true for us</DIV>
<DIV>The soul is the animating principle or the actuating cause of a life. It
is what makes you a unique person.</DIV>
<DIV>The body is the container for the soul and spirit.</DIV>
<DIV>The spirit is the breath of your life. The body dies, but the soul
that is you and the spirit given by God lives on. John 6: 63
says "It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words
that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."</DIV>
<DIV>Nancy<BR><BR><B><I>gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<P>Nancy,</P>
<P>What, then, is the condition of the dead? And what happens to the spirit
when a person dies? The soul dies; it does not live on after death. (Ezekiel
18:4)</P>
<DIV>Pretty simple text. The beginning shows how the body cannot go on with
the life force within him. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Posh<BR><BR><B><I>gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV>Posh, </DIV>
<DIV>just what are you saying here?</DIV>
<DIV>Nancy<BR><BR><B><I>gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV>I have a thought......</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"IF AN able-bodied man dies can he live again?" asked the patriarch
Job some 3,500 years ago. (Job 14:14) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P>In some lands, beliefs regarding the condition of the dead are a
blend of local tradition and nominal Christianity. Among many Catholics
and Protestants in West Africa, for instance, it is customary to cover
mirrors when someone dies so that no one might look and see the dead
person's spirit.</P>
<P>In the Bible, the words translated "spirit" basically mean "breath."
But this implies much more than the act of breathing. The Bible writer
James, for example, states: "The body without spirit is dead." (James
2:26) Hence, spirit is that which animates the body.</P>
<P>This animating force cannot simply be the breath, or air, moving
through the lungs. Why not? Because after breathing stops, life remains
in the body cells for a brief period—"for several minutes," according to
<I>The World Book Encyclopedia</I>. For this reason, efforts at
resuscitation can succeed. But once the spark of life is extinguished
from the cells of the body, any efforts to restore life are futile. All
the breath, or air, in the world cannot revive even one cell. The
spirit, then, is the invisible life-force—the spark of life that keeps
the cells and the person alive. This life-force is sustained by
breathing.—Job 34:14, 15.</P>
<P>Is that spirit active only in humans? The Bible helps us to reach a
sound conclusion in this matter. Wise King Solomon acknowledged that
humans and animals "all have but one spirit," and he asked: "Who is
there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending
upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward
to the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21) So animals as well as men are
spoken of as having a spirit. How can that be?</P>
<P>The spirit, or life-force, can be compared to the electric current
that flows through a machine or an appliance. The invisible electricity
may perform various functions, depending on the type of equipment it
powers. For example, an electric stove can be made to generate heat, a
computer to process information, and a television set to produce images
and sound. Yet, the electric current never takes on the features of the
equipment it activates. It remains simply a force. Similarly, the
life-force does not take on any of the characteristics of the creatures
it animates. It has no personality and no thinking ability. Humans and
animals "have but one spirit." (Ecclesiastes 3:19) When a person dies,
therefore, his spirit does not go on existing in another realm as a
spirit creature.</P>
<P>What, then, is the condition of the dead? And what happens to the
spirit when a person dies?</P>
<DIV>Posh</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV> Nancy,</DIV>
<DIV> From what you wrote <EM>if I understood this correctly
</EM>you wrote the same thing I was trying to write but I didn't
explain near as clearly.</DIV>
<DIV> To all,</DIV>
<DIV> I mean no offense to anyone who believes differently
but with out having accepted Christ according to the Bible your works
mean nothing. It is <EM>clearly </EM>stated in the Bible that you have
to have accepted Jesus to enter heaven. </DIV>
<DIV> About the works thing we
cannot just be saved by our works alone. Titus 3:5 clearly states this
(<STRONG>KJV). Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have
done, but according to his mercy he ( Meaning Jesus) saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
Ghost;</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jeff</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) <A
href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</A>
writes:</DIV>
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<DIV>Layne,</DIV>
<DIV>I believe the you must accept Jesus Christ as your savior: Him
crucified for your sins and risen again for your rising. But,
just because you say you believe this does not gain you anything in
that if you really love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul
you will show it by acting like He would act if He were in your
place. Each day you need to keep in mind what Jesus would do
were He you and act accordingly. This is justifying the
fact that He gave his life for you and you believe and demonstrate
this fact. Thus faith without works is dead. The word
justifying does not mean that works will save you, they won't.
Only Jesus can do that through His blood, but works demonstrates
this salvation. </DIV>
<DIV>I hope this is clear. If not ask again and we will try to
clarify ourselves.</DIV>
<DIV>Nancy<BR><BR><B><I>gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV> Ok here's my opinion.
First off I use the KJV. I use no other translations
unless I use them as a commentary. Below is the KJV of these
verses. ( I have a bible program so it was just a quick copy &
paste) I DID read it though ! Here's how I believe.
Works do not buy you into heaven. If you are a dedicated
Christian you will want to do good " Works".
<STRONG>Here is how I define Christian.</STRONG> The Bible clearly
states the meaning of the word "Christian". To be a Christian you
have to be forgiven by God & also live a Christ like life.
</DIV>
<DIV> Scond of
all; we need to have faith but faith alone doesn't
mean that we can have faith & live in sin ( never have
accepted Christ) & still go to heaven based on our works. Your
works mean nothing to God unless you accept his free gift
from his Son Jesus. Our works come along with a Christian life but
we can't just get into heaven for how good of a life we live. I'm
sorry but anyone who believes that way is way way off. THere
is a verse in the Bilble that I will find & send to you then.
It talks about how on just works alone our works are as filthy
rags. In other words you need Jesus Christ who died for us all in
our lives which comes through asking him to forgive us.</DIV>
<DIV> Jeff</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG> Jas 2:14 ¶ What doth
it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have
not works? can faith save him?<BR>15 If a brother or sister be
naked, and destitute of daily food,<BR>16 And one of you say unto
them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye
give them not those things which are needful to the body; what
doth it profit?<BR>17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is
dead, being alone. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have
works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee
my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God;
thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.<BR>20 But
wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is
dead?<BR>21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he
had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?<BR>22 Seest thou how
faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith,
Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for
righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.<BR>24 Ye see
then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith
only.<BR>25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by
works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out
another way?<BR><BR> 26 For as the body without the spirit is
dead, so faith without works is dead also. {spirit: or, breath}
<BR>Full Compare FBN PNTC TSK<BR>(KJV)<BR> <BR>-> Next
chapter</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Wed, 12 May 2004 19:27:41 EDT <A
href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</A>
writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>Hey guys.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>I have a question for any
of you who believe that salvation comes through faith alone (or
for anyone else who has an opinion on the issue). I have a
question about a few Bible verses that to me say that salvation
comes through faith alone. I've actually put these verses
up to some of my Protestant friends before but none of them have
ever answered me so I thought some of you might be able
to. thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>okay so here's the main
verse that i have a question about. i went ahead and typed
it out just in case anyone didn't have a Bible with them or
something. i bolded a few passages that sum up the
salvation by faith and works idea. let me know what you
think of this passage (by the way.. i know there are tons of
verses that say salvation comes through faith alone so if you
don't mind please don't respond to this message by giving me a
list of those. I'm really just looking for an explanation
of this verse in regard to how one receives salvation).
thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>okay here it is:
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>James 2: 14-26 (by
the way this version is coming from the New American
Bible)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>(14) What good is it, my
brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have
works? Can that faith save him? (15) If a brother or
sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, (16) and
one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,"
but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good
is it? (17) So also <STRONG>faith of itself, if it does
not have works, is dead</STRONG>. (18) Indeed, someone may
say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your
faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to
you with my works. (19) You believe that God is one.
You do well. Even the demons believe that and
tremble. (20) <STRONG>Do you want proof, you ignoramus,
that faith without works is useless?</STRONG> (21) Was not
Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his some
Isaac upon the altar? (22) <STRONG>You see that faith was
active along with his works and faith was completed by the
works</STRONG>. (23) Thus the scripture was fulfilled that
says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as
righteousness," and he was called, "the friend of God."
(24) <STRONG>See how a person is justified by works and not
faith alone</STRONG>. (25) And in the same ways, was not
Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the
messengers and sent them out by a different route? (26)
<STRONG>For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also
faith without works is dead</STRONG>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>All right that's it
then. And thanks in advance for giving me some insight
into this passage from a Protestant perspective.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff8000>Layne</FONT></DIV>
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