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<DIV>Dear Lance, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I will have a better idea of what I think might be the answer to your
question, after I hear back next week from the rabbi who seems willing to answer
a lot of questions from a sometimes skeptical Christian, namely me.
(Cross-reference my P.S. to greenBubble). I think he enjoys the opportunity to
explain what he knows from the Hebrew texts to a non-Jew, and he has no desire
to convert me to his faith, because evangelization has nothing to do with the
G-d given role he pursues.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would tenatively say, I don't have an explanation for the comment by
Jesus you mention, and I don't believe there is one. What you have been taught
obviously offers <EM>A </EM>meaning, and I have heard that explanation taught
too. It could be true. For all the actual language of Scripture tells
us, it could be false.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Taken at face value, as you have quoted it, Jesus said that a being named
Lucifer was kicked out of heaven and sent to the grave. This being is not named
Satan -- and Jesus used the name Satan when that was what he meant. The grave is
not hell. And there is nothing to identify Lucifer as an angel, not in the words
you cite, nor in Isaiah 14:12. Luficer MAY have been an angel, I don't know, and
Scripture doesn't say. Human reasoning is always trying to fill in mysteries,
and sometimes that filling in becomes accepted, but it is not
authoritative.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Although I do love argument, I am not saying all this because I know the
correct answer. I believe a lot of supposition, inference, plausible explanation
that might or might not be reliable, and transfer of concepts from Greek
philosophy and pagan customs have permeated Christian theology. I am not an
iconoclast. I don't make a point of denying the Trinity, or telling people they
should NOT believe in angels or devils. I don't run around smashing Roman
Catholic statues of saints and calling them idols, as some of our Protestant
ancestors did. I enjoy putting up lights at Christmas and decorating trees (and
putting creches in the trees). I have no problem with yule logs. I don't believe
any of these are fundamental to Christian faith. I like to stick to the simplest
instructions to be found in plain and obvious Scripture. Two examples:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>He has shown you oh man, what is good, and what does the Lord require of
you but to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your G-d.
(Michah 6:8).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matthew 22: 37-40, I won't type out in full, but Jesus said "all of the law
and the prophets" hangs on two commandments. Even trying to half-way live up to
those two is more than enough for one lifetime, and being that we are all
imperfect, salvation after such an imperfect attempt is indeed grace.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In short, I believe many of the details that Christians debate and form
denominations and subgroups within denominations over are not especially
relevant, or even knowable, but even to say that is itself a cause of new
debates. (For example, expressing doubt about angels and devils). I appreciate
having lots of denominations, because each person can practice whatever
orthodoxy brings them closer to G-d, and fellowship with those who find meaning
in the same orthodoxy. I don't wish to reduce us all to one generalized lowest
common denominator. Our nation is richer for having many orthodoxies that are
practiced sincerely. We just don't advance any faith by claiming this or
that interpretation as the only true one. I simply don't believe any of the
details define what is and what is not acceptable to the Creator.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Siarlys</DIV></BODY></HTML>