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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=858220704-30102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I felt it was worth sharing, if only to sit back and see
how siarlys disected it, as i knew he would.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=858220704-30102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As to the yellow text, i can't read it at all in yellow, so
i convert the whole email into plain text, and then i can read
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=858220704-30102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=858220704-30102008>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=858220704-30102008>greenBubble</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Subject:</B> Re: [GCFL-discuss] FW: Is America
Really Going to To this?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Au contraire, I think you SHOULD read these two articles in full, AND I
think you should read one specific video paid for by Obama in full, and then you
should analyze them, cross-check them, to your heart's content. I find these
articles easy to discredit, but if you find them credible, so be it. We each
have one vote. greenBubble thought this article was worth sharing. I thought it
was worth dissecting. What I did note about both articles is that, LIKE
materials that issue from any candidate's campaign, they BEGIN with a point of
view they want to persuade the reader to, rather than beginning with a set of
facts they wish to report.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Siarlys</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Incidentally, a Lutheran pastor I forwarded the discussion to thought it
was neat to put the citations in yellow text, because they were obviously yellow
journalism.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:21:34 -0700 "Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List" <<A href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</A>>
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV>Wait, so 2 independent articles attacking Obama are being discredited
because you find they have conservative tendencies. And then Claim their all
lies (yet neither companies have anything to do with each other so 2 lies
saying the same thing is in need of mathematical explanation).</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>BUT believe I should watch videos PAID for by Obama and believe it to be
all fact?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Come on sir, I find this very hard to swallow.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>~Lance<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Discussion of the
Good, Clean Funnies List <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net">gcfl-discuss@gcfl.net</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>Dear greenBubble and everyone,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As you might expect, I can't find any merit in this article at
all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The important reason is, why not?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I note in passing that <EM>The Spectator</EM> and <EM>World</EM>
magazine are somewhat MORE partisan in their peculiar caterwauling than
either of the candidate's campaign organizations are. They have a right to
express their opinion, but there is nothing factually reliable there.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have a long term view of politics. Barack Obama became a plausible
candidate for president because he broke the decripit stereotypes that
American politics had been locked into. The artificial monstrosities of
"blue states" and "red states," the tired and almost meaningless terms
"liberal" and "conservative," the infatuation with cultural polarization
that accurately describes very few Americans. We are each much more complex
than either the media or the professional politicos give us credit for, and
we exist in much more complex webs of inter-relation to each other.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Obama understands those complex interconnections that make us
Americans, and those voters who have supported him, and seem ready to do so
again, sense that, respond to it, look forward to leadership of the nature
he offers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, he has a capacity to think about what he is doing, or saying, and
to then answer decisively, as opposed to acting without thinking (the Bush
style) or dithering without saying or doing anything (the style which cost
John Kerry the 2004 election). He doesn't run away or go into loud denial
either -- for instance, he waded right into the Jeremiah Wright controversy,
and refused to cater to any loud demands from either admirers or critics of
Wright.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Rush Limbaughs and Ann Coulters of the world (and add Melanie
Phillips to the list) feel threatened by Obama, because their careers and
influence, such as it is, are built in the very hatreds and polarizations
which Obama is capably demolishing. So, rather than criticize him for what
he is, they are trying to demonize him with the same tired old
characterizations. It is not working, because these characterizations do not
fit him, and a majority of voters recognize that.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This article you just posted is exactly the kind of desperate hysteria
I am referring to.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>By contrast, the <EM>Chicago Tribune</EM>, the most conservative
Republican major daily in the country, has probably endorsed a Democrat for
the first time in its history in choosing Barack Obama. The Tribune has been
the source of the most critical factual data about Obama's less than savory
associations with Chicago politics. The Tribune observes, however, that
having had the opportunity to observe his career close-up for many years,
before he became a national figure, and since, it is satisfied he is the
most qualified candidate this year. By all accounts from Illinois, people in
the state like a combination of vision with pragmatic political strategy,
and don't hold some compromises with whoever is in power against
Obama.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I believe the authors will be surprised at how Obama does in office. I
believe that his administration will not only be the end of
pseudo-"conservative" hysteria, it will be the end of liberalism as we know
it. Nancy Pelosi will just have to go along for the ride, because she
doesn't have any other options.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now, as to the specific matter of Israel, I am a little disappointed
that Obama has catered so much to the mantra required of American
politicians to loudly proclaim their commitment to Israel. I don't believe
that the foreign policy of the United States of America should be held
hostage to any nation, including Israel. It speaks poorly of our democracy
when any ethnic voting bloc can exercise a veto for its pet nation. (By the
same token, I am not offended that Jonathan Pollard felt impelled to spy on
the U.S. for Israel -- they are, after all, two distinct sovereign nations,
and their interests do not always perfectly coincide). I feel the same way
about urban concentrations of Slovaks, Serbs and Croats sabotaging George
F. Kennan's diplomatic work with President Tito of Yugoslavia during
circa 1960. This is America, not a surrogate for any foreign power. I also
feel the same about President Reagan appointing an ambassador to the
Vatican, which is not a state except in its own pretensions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Israel does have a right to exist. Some of its policies are, in the
long run, going to jeopardize its own existence, and perhaps our nation
should firmly make that clear and refuse to give any Israeli government
carte blanche. Likewise, we should stop catering to brutal dictatorships in
Arabic-speaking nations, which simply turn the oppressed population hostile
to us, when we should be a beacon of hope to them. (Hosni Mubarak in Egypt
comes to mind, and our schizophrenic relationship to the Wahabi theocracy in
Saudi Arabia).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But I expect President Obama will for the most part leave US policy
toward Israel about as it is. That is the safe thing to do, politically,
particularly during a president's first term. He may be able to help Israel
by reaching out more credibly to its neighbors.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are, in fact, millions of Arab-Americans, who have endured the
absurdity of being cast as second class citizens as Obama was accused of
being Muslim or Arab. As Colin Powell finally had the courage to point out,
"So what if he is?" He's not, but neither Muslim faith nor Arab descent
disqualifies any native-born American citizen from being president. A large
portion of Arab-Americans are fifth generation. Labor unions in 1900 had to
translate leaflets into Arabic, among a dozen other languages, because so
many Syrian and Lebanese immigrants were in the work force. Generally, these
Americans have not held candidates hostage by demanding that they denounce
Israel, or pledge military aid to whatever country their grandparents or
great great grandparents emigrated from.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is America really going to do this? I believe we are, and thank G-d for
it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Siarlys</DIV></DIV><FONT face=Times-New-Roman
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