[GCFL-discuss] salvation by...

Wed May 12 23:15:00 CDT 2004

      Ok here's my opinion. First off I use the KJV. I use no other
translations unless I use them as a commentary. Below is the KJV of these
verses. ( I have a bible program so it was just a quick copy & paste) I
DID read it though ! Here's how I believe. Works do not buy you into
heaven. If you are a dedicated Christian you will want to do good "
Works". Here is how I define Christian. The Bible clearly states the
meaning of the word "Christian". To be a Christian you have to be
forgiven by God & also live a Christ like life. 
         Scond of all; we need to  have faith but faith alone  doesn't
mean that we can have faith & live in sin ( never have accepted Christ) &
still go to heaven based on our works. Your works mean nothing to God
unless you accept his free gift from his Son Jesus. Our works come along
with a Christian life but we can't just get into heaven for how good of a
life we live. I'm sorry but anyone who believes that way is way way off. 
THere is a verse in the Bilble that I will find & send to you then. It
talks about how on just works alone our works are as filthy rags. In
other words you need Jesus Christ who died for us all in our lives which
comes through asking him to forgive us.
 Jeff

      Jas 2:14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he
hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and
filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful
to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy
faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou
believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith
made perfect? 
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and
it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend
of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith
only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she
had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is
dead also. {spirit: or, breath} 
Full Compare FBN PNTC TSK
(KJV)

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On Wed, 12 May 2004 19:27:41 EDT gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net writes:
Hey guys.

I have a question for any of you who believe that salvation comes through
faith alone (or for anyone else who has an opinion on the issue).  I have
a question about a few Bible verses that to me say that salvation comes
through faith alone. I've actually put these verses up to some of my
Protestant friends before but none of them have ever answered me so I
thought some of you might be able to.  thanks.

okay so here's the main verse that i have a question about.  i went ahead
and typed it out just in case anyone didn't have a Bible with them or
something.  i bolded a few passages that sum up the salvation by faith
and works idea.  let me know what you think of this passage (by the way..
i know there are tons of verses that say salvation comes through faith
alone so if you don't mind please don't respond to this message by giving
me a list of those.  I'm really just looking for an explanation of this
verse in regard to how one receives salvation).  thanks.

okay here it is:  
James 2: 14-26  (by the way this version is coming from the New American
Bible)
(14) What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does
not have works?  Can that faith save him?  (15) If a brother or sister
has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, (16) and one of you says
to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them
the necessities of the body, what good is it?  (17) So also faith of
itself, if it does not have works, is dead.  (18) Indeed, someone may
say, "You have faith and I have works."  Demonstrate your faith to me
without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you with my works. 
(19) You believe that God is one.  You do well.  Even the demons believe
that and tremble.  (20) Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith
without works is useless?  (21) Was not Abraham our father justified by
works when he offered his some Isaac upon the altar?  (22) You see that
faith was active along with his works and faith was completed by the
works.  (23) Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham
believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was
called, "the friend of God."  (24) See how a person is justified by works
and not faith alone.  (25) And in the same ways, was not Rahab the harlot
also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them
out by a different route?  (26) For just as a body without a spirit is
dead, so also faith without works is dead.

All right that's it then.  And thanks in advance for giving me some
insight into this passage from a Protestant perspective.

Layne
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