[GCFL-discuss] salvation by...

Fri May 14 20:54:41 CDT 2004

Posh, 
just what are you saying here?
Nancy

gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net wrote:
I have a thought......

"IF AN able-bodied man dies can he live again?" asked the patriarch Job some 3,500 years ago. (Job 14:14) 

In some lands, beliefs regarding the condition of the dead are a blend of local tradition and nominal Christianity. Among many Catholics and Protestants in West Africa, for instance, it is customary to cover mirrors when someone dies so that no one might look and see the dead person's spirit.

In the Bible, the words translated "spirit" basically mean "breath." But this implies much more than the act of breathing. The Bible writer James, for example, states: "The body without spirit is dead." (James 2:26) Hence, spirit is that which animates the body.

This animating force cannot simply be the breath, or air, moving through the lungs. Why not? Because after breathing stops, life remains in the body cells for a brief period—"for several minutes," according to The World Book Encyclopedia. For this reason, efforts at resuscitation can succeed. But once the spark of life is extinguished from the cells of the body, any efforts to restore life are futile. All the breath, or air, in the world cannot revive even one cell. The spirit, then, is the invisible life-force—the spark of life that keeps the cells and the person alive. This life-force is sustained by breathing.—Job 34:14, 15.

Is that spirit active only in humans? The Bible helps us to reach a sound conclusion in this matter. Wise King Solomon acknowledged that humans and animals "all have but one spirit," and he asked: "Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21) So animals as well as men are spoken of as having a spirit. How can that be?

The spirit, or life-force, can be compared to the electric current that flows through a machine or an appliance. The invisible electricity may perform various functions, depending on the type of equipment it powers. For example, an electric stove can be made to generate heat, a computer to process information, and a television set to produce images and sound. Yet, the electric current never takes on the features of the equipment it activates. It remains simply a force. Similarly, the life-force does not take on any of the characteristics of the creatures it animates. It has no personality and no thinking ability. Humans and animals "have but one spirit." (Ecclesiastes 3:19) When a person dies, therefore, his spirit does not go on existing in another realm as a spirit creature.

What, then, is the condition of the dead? And what happens to the spirit when a person dies?
Posh

gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net wrote:
        Nancy,
  From what you wrote if I understood this correctly you wrote the same thing I was trying to write but I didn't explain near as clearly.
 To all,
   I mean no offense to anyone who believes differently but with out having accepted Christ according to the Bible your works mean nothing. It is clearly stated in the Bible that you have to have accepted Jesus to enter heaven. 
       About the works thing we cannot just be saved by our works alone. Titus 3:5 clearly states this (KJV). Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he  ( Meaning Jesus) saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Jeff

On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net writes:
Layne,
I believe the you must accept Jesus Christ as your savior: Him crucified for your sins and risen again for your rising.  But, just because you say you believe this does not gain you anything in that if you really love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul you will show it by acting like He would act if He were in your place.  Each day you need to keep in mind what Jesus would do were He you and act accordingly.  This is justifying the fact that He gave his life for you and you believe and demonstrate this fact.  Thus faith without works is dead.  The word justifying does not mean that works will save you, they won't.  Only Jesus can do that through His blood, but works demonstrates this salvation.  
I hope this is clear.  If not ask again and we will try to clarify ourselves.
Nancy

gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net wrote:
      Ok here's my opinion. First off I use the KJV. I use no other translations unless I use them as a commentary. Below is the KJV of these verses. ( I have a bible program so it was just a quick copy & paste) I DID read it though ! Here's how I believe. Works do not buy you into heaven. If you are a dedicated Christian you will want to do good " Works". Here is how I define Christian. The Bible clearly states the meaning of the word "Christian". To be a Christian you have to be forgiven by God & also live a Christ like life. 
         Scond of all; we need to  have faith but faith alone  doesn't mean that we can have faith & live in sin ( never have accepted Christ) & still go to heaven based on our works. Your works mean nothing to God unless you accept his free gift from his Son Jesus. Our works come along with a Christian life but we can't just get into heaven for how good of a life we live. I'm sorry but anyone who believes that way is way way off.  THere is a verse in the Bilble that I will find & send to you then. It talks about how on just works alone our works are as filthy rags. In other words you need Jesus Christ who died for us all in our lives which comes through asking him to forgive us.
 Jeff

      Jas 2:14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. {spirit: or, breath} 
Full Compare FBN PNTC TSK
(KJV)

-> Next chapter

On Wed, 12 May 2004 19:27:41 EDT gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net writes:
Hey guys.

I have a question for any of you who believe that salvation comes through faith alone (or for anyone else who has an opinion on the issue).  I have a question about a few Bible verses that to me say that salvation comes through faith alone. I've actually put these verses up to some of my Protestant friends before but none of them have ever answered me so I thought some of you might be able to.  thanks.

okay so here's the main verse that i have a question about.  i went ahead and typed it out just in case anyone didn't have a Bible with them or something.  i bolded a few passages that sum up the salvation by faith and works idea.  let me know what you think of this passage (by the way.. i know there are tons of verses that say salvation comes through faith alone so if you don't mind please don't respond to this message by giving me a list of those.  I'm really just looking for an explanation of this verse in regard to how one receives salvation).  thanks.

okay here it is:  
James 2: 14-26  (by the way this version is coming from the New American Bible)
(14) What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?  Can that faith save him?  (15) If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, (16) and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?  (17) So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.  (18) Indeed, someone may say, "You have faith and I have works."  Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you with my works.  (19) You believe that God is one.  You do well.  Even the demons believe that and tremble.  (20) Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?  (21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his some Isaac upon the altar?  (22) You see that faith was active along with his works and faith was completed by the works.  (23) Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham
 believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called, "the friend of God."  (24) See how a person is justified by works and not faith alone.  (25) And in the same ways, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?  (26) For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

All right that's it then.  And thanks in advance for giving me some insight into this passage from a Protestant perspective.

Layne

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Nance

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Nance

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