[GCFL-discuss] FW: Is America Really Going to To this?

Thu Oct 30 21:46:48 CDT 2008

OK, we're all on the same page then. Thanks for the exercise. Its been
fun. A friend I forwarded the discussion too also had trouble reading the
yellow text. On my email softward, I have the background set to brown,
and my text to green. Highlighting in yellow looks fine with a brown
background, but if the text comes out in yellow on a different
background, it doesn't work out very well. When I receive, it is usually
with my background, brown. But some messages, particularly Jeanene's,
come in with a white background. Green and blue are OK on that, but not
yellow. When text comes in, it is usually green, for me, but sometimes it
comes in black, particularly from a friend in DC, and I have to highlight
to read it on a brown background. greenBubble comes in blue, on a brown
background, but occasionally in green.

Siarlys

P.S. This is Lance's area of expertise. He could tell us all what is
really going on.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:11:22 -0400 "Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List" <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> writes:
I felt it was worth sharing, if only to sit back and see how siarlys
disected it, as i knew he would.
As to the yellow text, i can't read it at all in yellow, so i convert the
whole email into plain text, and then i can read it.

greenBubble

Subject: Re: [GCFL-discuss] FW: Is America Really Going to To this?

Au contraire, I think you SHOULD read these two articles in full, AND I
think you should read one specific video paid for by Obama in full, and
then you should analyze them, cross-check them, to your heart's content.
I find these articles easy to discredit, but if you find them credible,
so be it. We each have one vote. greenBubble thought this article was
worth sharing. I thought it was worth dissecting. What I did note about
both articles is that, LIKE materials that issue from any candidate's
campaign, they BEGIN with a point of view they want to persuade the
reader to, rather than beginning with a set of facts they wish to report.

Siarlys

Incidentally, a Lutheran pastor I forwarded the discussion to thought it
was neat to put the citations in yellow text, because they were obviously
yellow journalism.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:21:34 -0700 "Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List" <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> writes:
Wait, so 2 independent articles attacking Obama are being discredited
because you find they have conservative tendencies. And then Claim their
all lies (yet neither companies have anything to do with each other so 2
lies saying the same thing is in need of mathematical explanation).

BUT believe I should watch videos PAID for by Obama and believe it to be
all fact?

Come on sir, I find this very hard to swallow.

~Lance

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> wrote:

Dear greenBubble and everyone,

As you might expect, I can't find any merit in this article at all.

The important reason is, why not?

I note in passing that The Spectator and World magazine are somewhat MORE
partisan in their peculiar caterwauling than either of the candidate's
campaign organizations are. They have a right to express their opinion,
but there is nothing factually reliable there.

I have a long term view of politics. Barack Obama became a plausible
candidate for president because he broke the decripit stereotypes that
American politics had been locked into. The artificial monstrosities of
"blue states" and "red states," the tired and almost meaningless terms
"liberal" and "conservative," the infatuation with cultural polarization
that accurately describes very few Americans. We are each much more
complex than either the media or the professional politicos give us
credit for, and we exist in much more complex webs of inter-relation to
each other.

Obama understands those complex interconnections that make us Americans,
and those voters who have supported him, and seem ready to do so again,
sense that, respond to it, look forward to leadership of the nature he
offers.

Also, he has a capacity to think about what he is doing, or saying, and
to then answer decisively, as opposed to acting without thinking (the
Bush style) or dithering without saying or doing anything (the style
which cost John Kerry the 2004 election). He doesn't run away or go into
loud denial either -- for instance, he waded right into the Jeremiah
Wright controversy, and refused to cater to any loud demands from either
admirers or critics of Wright.

The Rush Limbaughs and Ann Coulters of the world (and add Melanie
Phillips to the list) feel threatened by Obama, because their careers and
influence, such as it is, are built in the very hatreds and polarizations
which Obama is capably demolishing. So, rather than criticize him for
what he is, they are trying to demonize him with the same tired old
characterizations. It is not working, because these characterizations do
not fit him, and a majority of voters recognize that.

This article you just posted is exactly the kind of desperate hysteria I
am referring to.

By contrast, the Chicago Tribune, the most conservative Republican major
daily in the country, has probably endorsed a Democrat for the first time
in its history in choosing Barack Obama. The Tribune has been the source
of the most critical factual data about Obama's less than savory
associations with Chicago politics. The Tribune observes, however, that
having had the opportunity to observe his career close-up for many years,
before he became a national figure, and since, it is satisfied he is the
most qualified candidate this year. By all accounts from Illinois, people
in the state like a combination of vision with pragmatic political
strategy, and don't hold some compromises with whoever is in power
against Obama.

I believe the authors will be surprised at how Obama does in office. I
believe that his administration will not only be the end of
pseudo-"conservative" hysteria, it will be the end of liberalism as we
know it. Nancy Pelosi will just have to go along for the ride, because
she doesn't have any other options.

Now, as to the specific matter of Israel, I am a little disappointed that
Obama has catered so much to the mantra required of American politicians
to loudly proclaim their commitment to Israel. I don't believe that the
foreign policy of the United States of America should be held hostage to
any nation, including Israel. It speaks poorly of our democracy when any
ethnic voting bloc can exercise a veto for its pet nation. (By the same
token, I am not offended that Jonathan Pollard felt impelled to spy on
the U.S. for Israel -- they are, after all, two distinct sovereign
nations, and their interests do not always perfectly coincide). I feel
the same way about urban concentrations of Slovaks, Serbs and Croats
sabotaging George F.  Kennan's diplomatic work with President Tito of
Yugoslavia during circa 1960. This is America, not a surrogate for any
foreign power. I also feel the same about President Reagan appointing an
ambassador to the Vatican, which is not a state except in its own
pretensions.

Israel does have a right to exist. Some of its policies are, in the long
run, going to jeopardize its own existence, and perhaps our nation should
firmly make that clear and refuse to give any Israeli government carte
blanche. Likewise, we should stop catering to brutal dictatorships in
Arabic-speaking nations, which simply turn the oppressed population
hostile to us, when we should be a beacon of hope to them. (Hosni Mubarak
in Egypt comes to mind, and our schizophrenic relationship to the Wahabi
theocracy in Saudi Arabia).

But I expect President Obama will for the most part leave US policy
toward Israel about as it is. That is the safe thing to do, politically,
particularly during a president's first term. He may be able to help
Israel by reaching out more credibly to its neighbors.

There are, in fact, millions of Arab-Americans, who have endured the
absurdity of being cast as second class citizens as Obama was accused of
being Muslim or Arab. As Colin Powell finally had the courage to point
out, "So what if he is?" He's not, but neither Muslim faith nor Arab
descent disqualifies any native-born American citizen from being
president. A large portion of Arab-Americans are fifth generation. Labor
unions in 1900 had to translate leaflets into Arabic, among a dozen other
languages, because so many Syrian and Lebanese immigrants were in the
work force. Generally, these Americans have not held candidates hostage
by demanding that they denounce Israel, or pledge military aid to
whatever country their grandparents or great great grandparents emigrated
from.

Is America really going to do this? I believe we are, and thank G-d for
it.

Siarlys

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