[GCFL-discuss] salvation by...

[gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net]

to the lot of you who have been knocking what Siarlys said:
Obviously, none of us can 100% know exactly what is needed to gain salvation 
as many different things are said in the BIble (for example some passages say 
faith alone and no works at all and some say faith and works and some say all 
you need is to be baptized).  Here, for example, is what Jesus Himself said:

    18 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit 
eternal life?" 19     "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is 
good--except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery, do 
not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and 
mother.' " 21 "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.  22 When 
Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you 
have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, 
follow me." 
(Luke 18:18-22)

See in this passage Jesus Himself says you just need to follow the 
commandments and give to the poor - He says absolutely nothing at all about having faith 
in Him or believeing that He is God's son.  What are your opinions on this? 
-Layne

In a message dated 5/17/2004 12:10:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net writes:
I'm sure no-one means to offend anyone else, but when Jeff writes

>with out having accepted Christ according to the Bible your works mean
nothing. It
>is clearly stated in the Bible that you have to have accepted Jesus to
>enter heaven

I believe both statements are incomplete, which means I have to deny that
the second one is correct.

First, it is all over both the Old and New Testament that humans cannot
earn salvation by good works. God is not impressed, because, first, we
are imperfect and inconsistent, and, second, we all "fall short of the
glory of God" to the extent that if God didn't care about us, for reasons
that no human with the powers of God could comprehend, we would be
nothing and nowhere. Without giving a long list of citations, the Psalms
of David, the preaching of Amos, Micah, Ezra, Job's contemplations, the
four gospels, and some of Paul's epistles, all are consistent on this
point.

But, it is not in the Bible, but in various teachings of church councils
and modern founders of denominations, that we find a rigid claim that
only those who have accepted Jesus can get into heaven.

Accepting Jesus is a very good way to get into heaven. But Christians who
believe nobody else will get in are in for a shock when they see how many
Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, maybe even some agnostics, are going to
be there with us.

The most consistent reference directly from Jesus is Matthew 25:31, to
the end of the chapter. Jesus is very clear that many who think they have
accepted Jesus, but have not acted on what Jesus taught, are not going to
get in. Also, many who are unaware they ever did anything for Jesus, are
going to be accepted.

C.S. Lewis worked with this theme in The Last Battle, the concluding book
of his Narnia series, which features a parallel to the Revelation and
last judgment. Aslan, the Lion, the story's Christ-figure, explains to a
prince of a pagan kingdom, who has become a man of high moral values and
compassion through cultivating a sincere devotion to his nation's rather
ruthless pagan idol, "anything good and true and pure you did out of
dedication to Tash, you really did for Me."

Friends have tried to tell me that this cannot be true, citing John 14. I
have two answers to that. The simpler is, Jesus said in Matthew 24,
"inasmuch as you have done it for the least of these my brethren, you
have done it unto me." Therefore, those who are not Christian, who have
fed, clothed, visited, "the least of these my brethren," have come to
salvation through Jesus because "you have done it unto me." Anyway, that
is what Jesus said, whether it conflicts with some Christian doctrine or
not.

Second, I believe John 14, which is arbitrarily separated from John 13,
has been badly misunderstood. Peter, Philip and Thomas were asking
questions that bordered on idolatry: from we can't see where you are
going, to show us the Father and we will believe. Jesus responded,
essentially, you can't see the way or the Father, that is why I came, in
human form, follow what I have taught you and you will be fine. Nobody
had asked "can people who don't accept you as their savior be saved?" and
that is not the question Jesus was answering.

But, as I said, accepting Jesus is a very good way to be saved. Its just
not the only way that Jesus will accept a human. And Jesus did say that
"salvation is of the Jews." (That is a phrase taken out of context, but
so are many other conclusions). Bottom line, Jesus sacrifice was not only
for those who formally accept him by name.

Siarlys
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