[GCFL-discuss] Prodigous!

Tue Sep 2 20:08:04 CDT 2008

Hi Matthew,

Good to hear from you. I don't remember what your political persuasion,
if any, might be, and as mine is "None of the Above," I won't ask about
yours, especially after the fiasco of insulting Jeanene by insinuating
that she is a Republican.

Your last question is the easiest to answer. My opinion (it's ultimately
John's call, but he puts up with ALMOST anything we want to talk about)
is, no the discussion group does not need to be a political discussion
board, and I just posted an apolitical remark about a recent joke
posting. But, I find discussion here, including political discussion,
more interesting, amusing and stimulating than most political discussion
boards. (I also have fun at thinkchristian.net, where I offend some and
draw agreeing comments from others, which is about how it should be.) In
an election year, some of the humor will undoubtedly be political anyway.
Having kicked this line of discussion off, I will at this point continue
it only when someone else has a response or question to which I can
respond in some reasonable way. So if everyone is bored, it will die out
rather quickly.

But you asked, how do I even know what Obama stands for. The honest
answer to that question is, when I see his campaign's TV commercials, I
am generally disappointed, because they are the same kind of fluff I see
from every candidate. But, when I read his two published books, I
remember, oh, that is the man whose judgment I trust to be in the White
House. I don't set much stock in promises, or in "positions on the
issues." Whoever is elected will mostly be dealing with crises none of us
have even imagined yet. I don't want to hear what anyone promises, I want
to know the quality of his thoughts over the past ten years or more. I
don't hold a candidate accountable for every stupid thing they did as a
teenager (Barack Obama, John McCain, George Bush, Clarence Thomas, all
have that kind of little skeleton in their closet), but I do want a
picture of how they have matured over the years. I won't retype the
content of his book here. You may or may not want to read it for
yourself.

I don't believe he is a master of sounding like he will do what everyone
wants. I believe he is a master of finding genuine common ground, not
perfect agreement, but common ground, so we can at least debate each
other civilly and get some progress accomplished. For example, he writes
eloquently about a man who emailed him when he was running for senate,
and essentially said, I might well vote for you, even though we disagree
on abortion, except I object to your web site's language about "right
wing ideologues denying a woman's right to choose. Just because I see it
differently doesn't make me a woman-hating right-wing ideologue." Obama
observed that the language was boilerplate for Democratic campaigns, but
the criticism was well taken, and he had it replaced with more balanced
and respectful language.

The last time I saw him accused of flip-flopping (by a McCain aide), he
had announced he would support a well balanced energy bill which might
include some new oil drilling. What he was talking about was a bill that
was being hammered out across the aisle so that something could move,
rather than total gridlock from everyone demanding "My program and
nothing else." At this time, the man is still a United States senator,
and responsible to help get some business done in the senate. His first
responsibility is not to vote NO on anything that contains some
compromise that might be less than 100% pure to what he has advocated in
the past. I understood him to mean, OK, if we have to allow some new
drilling, to get any bill passed at all, and if the drilling has some
responsible limits and safeguards, and some serious promise of increasing
domestic oil supply in the short term, that is acceptable as a price for
getting some development of new energy sources going, sources that we
won't have to drain our hard-earned dollars to the middle east for. I
consider that a responsible position, not a flip-flop. Likewise, some
left wing ideologues criticized him for talking to T. Boone Pickens about
wind development, because Pickens funded the Swift Vote Beterans
campaign. Well, Pickens was wrong about that, but he has a good idea on
wind power, and has the capital to back it up. So its right to talk to
him.

That's a little bit of how I see it. I believe the candidates' worst
enemies are their campaign staffs. They always want to play it safe for
their guy, and nit pick the other guy.

Siarlys

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:05:52 -0500 "Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List" <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> writes:
Siarlys,

How do you even know what Obama actually stands for?   Are you just
taking his word for it, or looking at his voting record?   On anything
controversial, it seems that he simply votes 'present', rather than
actually take a position.

IMHO, Obama has one strong characteristic:   He is a master politician. 
That is to say that he is a master of sounding like he will do exactly
what everyone wants.  Wherever the political wind starts to blow, that is
what he supports.   Never mind that it is exactly 180 degrees from what
he was supporting just last week.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/15/mccain-camp-mocks-obama-for-refin
ing-iraq-position-on-web-site/

I know the list has been quiet, but does it *really* need to be a
political discussion board?

Just a thought,

Matthew
http://www.schlegelhome.info
Use secure email: http://www.getfiregpg.org

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 18:36, Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies List
<gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> wrote:

Siarlys... here's an interesting article on the Republicans:
<http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/cafferty.republicans/index.html?e
ref=rss_topstories#> Mind offering a defense and rebuttle to this?
~Lance

On 9/1/08, Lance Kirkman <romans832 at gmail.com> wrote: 
Is Obama as financially savvy as Clinton? Will the Democrats support such
a thing?
Will they raise the taxes on Corporations and remove tax credits so we
can return to Corporations paying the bulk of taxes instead of the lower
and middle class?
~Lance

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies
List <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> wrote:

What makes you think I am a Republican?
My husband and I have no debt other than our single mortgage.  We have
been
very blessed with a good family business (my husband's family) and a lack
of
desire to amass.  I have been referred to as the Queen of Over-Doing
Everything, and it is true with money too:  I am guilty of being too
generous.  Always have been, always will be.
I HATE taxes, I hate personal debt AND national debt.  But I don't know
how
to make a difference there.  I don't think I am part of the problem, but
I
fear being ignorant makes me somehow guilty.
Jeanene

Every once in a while, it's a good idea to call out
"Computer, end program," just to check. - D. Noelle

----- Original Message -----
> (OK, I don't expect this to change your mind. I'm really waiting to see
> how it grabs Lance. And whether Jeanene will be able to come up with
> anything in reply, except for "Oh, so what, I max out my credit card
all
> the time, and somehow life goes on." That's the modern Republican
> philosophy after all.)
>
> Siarlys

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