[GCFL-discuss] who was president 12:01 pm yesterday

Sat Jan 31 18:40:02 CST 2009

done, your honor.

i have no position on roe .v. wade.  i personally don't approve of
abortion (unless the mother's life is in danger, in which case it should
be mandated) but i don't think it's my place to tell the rest of the
country what to do about it.

there was a book that started with the premise of a bomb at joint
session or a party where the entire govenment was wiped out except for
one person at the end of the line of succession who was sick that day.
something like that.  i can't remember who wrote it.

thank you for the detailed answer to my question.  i knew you'd come
through.

greenBubble

________________________________

Subject: Re: [GCFL-discuss] who was president 12:01 pm yesterday

OK, I'll answer the question, but greenBubble, if you ever become
president, you have to appoint me to the Supreme Court. I promise to
turn down any arguments that equal protection of the laws entitles
anyone to a license to marry anyone or anything except a human being of
the opposite sex, and I'll also uphold Roe v. Wade. 50:50 ain't bad.
I'll keep everyone amused the way I do it, sort of a cross of Hugo Black
and Antonin Scalia.

Before those two amendments were adopted, the constitution basically
said nothing about presidential succession, except of course for the
vice-president. As John Adams said, when he became the first chosen for
that office "I am nothing, but I may be everything."

The first thing Amendment XX did was set the term of a president to
being Jan 20 instead of in March. It used to take 4-5 months for a
president to pack up his stuff and get to Washington anyway. Even if
someone declared war on us in the meantime, it would have taken three
months for an official declaration to arrive. With improved
transportation, communication, etc. it seemed a good idea to shorten the
time. This was 1933, and the economy lost a whole lot of ground sitting
still under Hoover, before Roosevelt finally got his hands on things.
Since Roosevelt didn't have the foggiest idea what the New Deal would
look like, just a determination to try things until something worked,
time lost was a real set-back.

Next, Amendment XX tried to anticipate various things that might go
wrong with presidential succession. What if the president-elect died
before taking office? What if he didn't qualify? In that case, the vice
president would take the office. Seems obvious, but it wasn't in the
constitution, so it couldn't just happen. The amendment also authorized
congress to provide by law for what happens if one of the people from
whom the House can choose a president, or from whom the senate can
choose a vice-president, died before the decision was made. That is
important, because unless the constitution says congress may pass a law,
congress simply has no power to do so. They can try, but the Supreme
Court will declare the law exceeds congress's constitutionally delegated
powers, and nullify it, just like Alexander Hamilton and James Madison
said it should do (its in The Federalist Papers).

By 1967, there were all kinds of new worries. What if the president
dies, the vice president succeeds, then the vice-president dies? We need
a way to choose a new vice president. What if the president has a
stroke, or goes insane, and is unable to perform his duties? Basically
the vice-president and the cabinet are authorized to report this to the
president pro tem of the senate and the speaker of the house, and the
vice president will take charge until the president is ready to take the
job back. Sort of like Raul Castro taking over for Fidel while he was in
the hospital. If the president and vice president disagree, a majority
vote of congress decides it. (What if the president is too crazy to know
he is too crazy to perform the duties of the office).

But I'm wrong about where Congress gets the authority to decide
succession beyond the vice president. That was there all along, in
Article II, Section [6]: Congress may by law provide for the Case of
Removal, Death, Resignation, or Inability, both of the President and the
Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President..."

As far as I know though, it was sometime since WW II that congress
actually provided the chain of succession through the speaker of the
house, president pro tem of the senate, cabinet officers in order of
seniority of their office, starting with secretary of state. The
thinking became, what if we have a nuclear war and half the government
is incinerated or out of communication, who's in charge?

That's enough for one email.

Siarlys

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:22:23 -0500 "Discussion of the Good, Clean
Funnies List" <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> writes:

	Point taken. This was an interesting exercise in what-it,
although it turned out that the premise was flawed.  but the exercise
was fun.

	Now a new question, inspired by -- but independent of -- the
previous discussion.
	Siarlys (our resident constitutional scholar)
	Please elaborate on this statement: 

		Succession to the office of president, beyond the vice
president, is established by a congressional 
		statute, adopted under the authority of Amendment XX
(1933) and Amendment XXV (1967). 

	What does the amendment say and what does the statue say?  i
thought there were several layers of congressional leaders in line
before the cabinet, not just two.

	Zvi Freund

________________________________

	From: gcfl-discuss-bounces_milton.freund=siemens.com at gcfl.net
[mailto:gcfl-discuss-bounces_milton.freund=siemens.com at gcfl.net] On
Behalf Of Discussion of the Good, Clean Funnies List
	Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:58 PM
	To: Freund, Milton (H USA)
	Subject: Re: [GCFL-discuss] who was president 12:01 pm yesterday

	My point is, until they either DO resign to become president, or
pass, the office does not fall to anyone else. So talking about the
Secretary of State or any other cabinet officer (they are all in line,
in order of how old their position is), becoming president for a few
minutes, is nonsense.

	If a major crisis had erupted on Jan 20 around noon, either Bush
or Obama or both would have handled it. Nobody else.

	Siarlys

	On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:29:16 -0500 "Discussion of the Good,
Clean Funnies List" <gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net> writes:

		Siarlys 
		Please elaborate on this statement: 

			Succession to the office of president, beyond
the vice president, is established by a congressional 
			statute, adopted under the authority of
Amendment XX (1933) and Amendment XXV (1967). 

		The congressional statute you refer to (which I saw
before starting this thread but thought was part of the amendment),
states explicitly that the Speaker or President pro temp must resign
before assuming the presidency.  

		greenBubble 

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