[GCFL-discuss] POLITICS

[gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net]

        Siarlys,
  Are you suggesting that John do this? If you are  No offense but I
disagree with this idea. We agreed that discussing religion as deep as we
all did should not be cause we were all pulling our hair out trying to
make everyone believe the way we do. I mean we all talk about the weather
events ect,  Well the election is an current event. What else do you talk
about when you have people different ages with different things in common
if you can't even talk about U.S. / World events ?  Although I do agree
that it is just about all some people want to talk about... I wish we
could find a happy line between. But then again if we don't have anything
else to discuss what will we do if we take politics out of it?Just My 
Opinion
  Jeff
      
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:04:19 -0500 gcfl-discuss at gcfl.net writes:
> I expect that John may soon impose a rule that no material from any
> political campaign may be posted in the discussion group. Maybe we 
> should
> just say, if anyone wants to uphold a viewpoint or candidate, they 
> should
> be confident enough to do it in their own words. (I am certain that 
> in
> most matters, I can defend John Kerry somewhat better than he can 
> do
> himself -- and Jeff certainly does a better job for GWB than any 
> Bush
> campaign commercial does).
> 
> But fair is fair, and anyway, one thing I cannot do is speak as a 
> Vietnam
> veteran, which I am not. So in response to the Swift Boat Veterans 
> for
> Bush, I would like to offer the following. I do not believe that any 
> of
> us should vote for either candidate because some number of veterans
> recommends them. There are veterans on both sides, union members on 
> both
> sides, teachers on both sides, clergy on both sides, etc. etc. etc. 
> But
> this will restore some balance.
> 
> Siarlys
> 
> SHORT VERSION:
> 
> Ten Senior Military Officials Respond to Cheney Personal Attacks
> 
> Ten senior military officials released the following statement in
> response to the Vice President's attacks on John Kerry on Thursday:
> 
> "We are deeply disappointed by the tone and tenor of President Bush 
> and
> Vice President Cheney's personal attacks on John Kerry, a decorated
> combat veteran who served his country with courage and honor. John 
> Kerry
> is talking about his plan to address the most pressing issues facing 
> our
> nation - jobs, the economy, health care, the war on terror, the war 
> in
> Iraq. George Bush and Dick Cheney have chosen take their campaign to 
> the
> gutter. We call on President Bush and Vice President Cheney to stop 
> the
> irresponsible personal attacks and tell us where they want to take 
> the
> country. Tell us how they plan to win the peace in Iraq. Tell us how 
> they
> plan to get us back on track with the war on terror. Tell us where 
> they
> plan to lead the country. The American people and our troops deserve
> better."
> 
> Signed by: 
> 
> Admiral William J. Crowe (United States Navy, Retired)
> Admiral Stansfield Turner (United States Navy, Retired)
> General Wesley K. Clark (United States Army, Retired)
> General Merrill "Tony" A. McPeak (United States Air Force, Retired)
> General Joseph Hoar (United States Marine Corps, Retired)
> General Johnnie E. Wilson (United States Army, Retired) 
> Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn (United States Navy, Retired)
> Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy (United States Army, Retired)
> Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick (United States Army, Retired)
> Lieutenant General Edward D. Baca
> 
> Senator McCain has called Bush's ads "dishonest and dishonorable." 
> McCain
> does still support Bush for re-election, and has campaigned with him 
> in
> Arizona.
> 
> Washington, DC - General Merrill McPeak released the following 
> statement
> today responding to the attacks Vice President Cheney made today in
> Dayton, OH:
> "Let's get the record straight. No one disputes these facts: John 
> Kerry
> volunteered for active military service when many others-including
> President Bush and Vice President Cheney-found a way to avoid it. He 
> came
> under intense hostile fire, was wounded three times and was 
> decorated for
> gallantry. Do the President and Vice President really want to have 
> a
> debate about who is more suited to fight the war in Iraq and the war 
> on
> terror? Do they really want a debate about which candidate has the
> toughness to make America stronger?"
> 
> 
> NOW, FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO TAKE THE TIME, HERE IS THE LONGER 
> RESPONSE
> FROM AN INDIVIDUAL VETERAN:
> 
> The Guy Who Was Actually There Speaks Out for Kerry 
> Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush
> By JIM RASSMANN
> Wall Street Journal
> August 10, 2004
> I came to know Lt. John Kerry during the spring of 1969. He and his 
> swift
> boat crew assisted in inserting our Special Forces team and our 
> Chinese
> Nung soldiers into operational sites in the Cau Mau Peninsula of 
> South
> Vietnam. I worked with him on many operations and saw firsthand his
> leadership, courage and decision-making ability under fire.
> 
> On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my 
> life.
> While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, 
> a
> mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted 
> from
> both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments 
> later.
> The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me 
> into
> the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to 
> the
> bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my 
> breath.
> When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone 
> taking
> fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam 
> under
> water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to 
> the
> north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds 
> were
> against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of 
> the
> river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen 
> me in
> the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat 
> around.
> Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to 
> climb
> up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly 
> upside
> down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me 
> hanging
> out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the 
> explosion
> that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself 
> to
> the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.
> For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, 
> our
> country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only 
> this
> past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat 
> V for
> his valor. The citation for this award, signed by the Commander of 
> U.S.
> Naval Forces, Vietnam, Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, read, "Lieutenant
> (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal
> courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of 
> the
> United States Naval Service." To this day I am grateful to John 
> Kerry for
> saving my life. And to this day I still believe that he deserved 
> the
> Silver Star for his courage.
> It has been many years since I served in Vietnam. I returned home, 
> got
> married, and spent many years as a deputy sheriff for Los Angeles 
> County.
> I retired in 1989 as a lieutenant. It has been a long time since I 
> left
> Vietnam, but I think often of the men who did not come home with 
> us.
> I am neither a politician nor an organizer. I am a retired police 
> officer
> with a passion for orchids. Until January of this year, the only 
> public
> presentations I made were about my orchid hobby. But in this 
> presidential
> election, I had to speak out; I had to tell the American people 
> about
> John Kerry, about his wisdom and courage, about his vision and
> leadership. I would trust John Kerry with my life, and I would 
> entrust
> John Kerry with the well-being of our country.
> Nobody asked me to join John's campaign. Why would they? I am a
> Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for
> Republicans. I volunteered for his campaign because I have seen 
> John
> Kerry in the worst of conditions. I know his character. I've 
> witnessed
> his bravery and leadership under fire. And I truly know he will be 
> a
> great commander in chief.
> Now, 35 years after the fact, some Republican-financed Swift Boat
> Veterans for Bush are suddenly lying about John Kerry's service in
> Vietnam; they are calling him a traitor because he spoke out against 
> the
> Nixon administration's failed policies in Vietnam. Some of these
> Republican-sponsored veterans are the same ones who spoke out 
> against
> John at the behest of the Nixon administration in 1971. But this 
> time
> their attacks are more vicious, their lies cut deep and are directed 
> not
> just at John Kerry, but at me and each of his crewmates as well. 
> This
> hate-filled ad asserts that I was not under fire; it questions my 
> words
> and Navy records. This smear campaign has been launched by people 
> without
> decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in
> combat.
> As John McCain noted, the television ad aired by these veterans is
> "dishonest and dishonorable." Sen. McCain called on President Bush 
> to
> condemn the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush ad. Regrettably, the 
> president
> has ignored Sen. McCain's advice.
> Does this strategy of attacking combat Vietnam veterans sound 
> familiar?
> In 2000, a similar Republican smear campaign was launched against 
> Sen.
> McCain. In fact, the very same communications group, Spaeth
> Communications, that placed ads against John McCain in 2000 is 
> involved
> in these vicious attacks against John Kerry. Texas Republican donors 
> with
> close ties to George W. Bush and Karl Rove crafted this "dishonest 
> and
> dishonorable" ad. Their new charges are false; their stories are
> fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in 
> Vietnam.
> They insult and defame all of us who served in Vietnam.
> But when the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have 
> cleared, a
> man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for 
> duty
> when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy 
> awarded a
> Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall 
> and
> proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat
> Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of 
> smear
> campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform. Swift 
> Boat
> Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.
> 
> Mr. Rassmann, a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County 
> Sheriff's
> Department, served with the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group in 
> Vietnam
> 1968-69.
> 
> 
> 
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